Celui-ci en Allemand mais on comprend un peu le français et l'anglais à l'arrière plan...pas été capable de faire jouer l'original sur Arte à cause de l'IP address. Très bon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1f7Y3u0hNE
Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
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jee27
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
"Le vin, lors de la victoire je le mérite. Mais dans l'adversité, j'en ai besoin..." Napoléon Bonaparte
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jee27
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
Voici une petite portion de ses recettes...j'avoue que JAMAIS j'aurais penser ajouter du jeune Cab de Napa pour améliorer un vieux Bordeaux mais je dois avouer que ça pique ma curiosité. Qui sait, on pourrait se faire une dégustation à fin de savoir qui fait les meilleurs "fake" sur FDV 
RUDY'S RECIPES
How to make fake….
1945 Ch Mouton-Rothschild
50% 1988 Ch Cos d'Estournel
25% 1990 Ch Palmer
25% 2000 California Cabernet
Domaine de la Romanée-Conti burgundy from the 1940s
2006 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge California Pinot Noir
Pomerol of the 1940s to 1960s
Duckhorn California Merlot 2007
Most commonly faked wines
BORDEAUX
Petrus 1945, 1947, 1961, 1982
Ch Lafleur 1947, 1950, 1961, 1990
Ch Latour à Pomerol 1961
Ch Trotanoy 1945, 1947, 1961
Ch La Mission Haut-Brion 1945, 1947, 1959, 1961
Ch Latour 1928, 1929, 1959, 1961
Ch Lafite 1959, 1945, 1982
Ch Mouton-Rothschild 1945
Ch d'Yquem, ancient vintages especially 1811
BURGUNDY
Dom de la Romanée-Conti, Romanée-Conti, all vintages from 1899 to 2011
Dom de la Romanée-Conti, La Tâche, all vintages from 1899 to 2011
Dom Henri Jayer, Richebourg and Cros Parantoux 1978, 1985
Dom Comte Georges de Vogüé, Musigny 1945, 1947, 1959, 1962
Plus anything old described as Sélection Nicolas.
RUDY'S RECIPES
How to make fake….
1945 Ch Mouton-Rothschild
50% 1988 Ch Cos d'Estournel
25% 1990 Ch Palmer
25% 2000 California Cabernet
Domaine de la Romanée-Conti burgundy from the 1940s
2006 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge California Pinot Noir
Pomerol of the 1940s to 1960s
Duckhorn California Merlot 2007
Most commonly faked wines
BORDEAUX
Petrus 1945, 1947, 1961, 1982
Ch Lafleur 1947, 1950, 1961, 1990
Ch Latour à Pomerol 1961
Ch Trotanoy 1945, 1947, 1961
Ch La Mission Haut-Brion 1945, 1947, 1959, 1961
Ch Latour 1928, 1929, 1959, 1961
Ch Lafite 1959, 1945, 1982
Ch Mouton-Rothschild 1945
Ch d'Yquem, ancient vintages especially 1811
BURGUNDY
Dom de la Romanée-Conti, Romanée-Conti, all vintages from 1899 to 2011
Dom de la Romanée-Conti, La Tâche, all vintages from 1899 to 2011
Dom Henri Jayer, Richebourg and Cros Parantoux 1978, 1985
Dom Comte Georges de Vogüé, Musigny 1945, 1947, 1959, 1962
Plus anything old described as Sélection Nicolas.
"Le vin, lors de la victoire je le mérite. Mais dans l'adversité, j'en ai besoin..." Napoléon Bonaparte
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Remi2
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
jee27 a écrit :Celui-ci en Allemand mais on comprend un peu le français et l'anglais à l'arrière plan...pas été capable de faire jouer l'original sur Arte à cause de l'IP address. Très bon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1f7Y3u0hNE
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jee27
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
j'ai trouvé ceci en fouillant le net...ça vaut la peine de partager. Voici donc Aubert de Villaine qui témoigne au procès de Rudy:
Aubert de Villaine
I loved the beginning of this testimony. Aubert was asked “what do you do for a living?” He responded simply “I make wine.” Aubert explained the history of the Romanée Conti vineyard, explaining that the borders of the vineyard had been recognized since at least the 13th century.
Aubert was born in 1939 and was living away from the vineyard until he turned 25, when he began working there and taking a series of courses on winemaking in Dijon. He was named co-manager of the domaine in 1973.
Aubert emphasized the extreme rarity of some of the wines of DRC. The oldest bottle that DRC has is from 1911. A single bottle of Richebourg. He explained to due to phylloxera, all of the vineyards in burgundy had been ripped out and replanted with American rootstock and grafted burgundian pinot noir except for two vineyards – Romanée Conti and a tiny portion of Richebourg owned by DRC. Due to the inability to inject carbon sulfide into the root area during WWII, these vineyards were finally overcome by the phylloxera and were pulled out after 1945. Romanée Conti produced only two barrels (600 bottles) of 1945 Romanée Conti and only 200 to 300 bottles of 1945 Richebourg Vieux Cepages. The Domaine has no bottles of either 1945 remaining in their library.
Aubert emphasized that “nothing is more rare than 1945 Romanée Conti.” He said he would be genuinely surprised if there are ANY real bottles of 1945 Romanée Conti remaining in the world.
With respect to the practice of reconditioning, Aubert explained how it works (including topping up the wines and replacing the corks and capsules and potentially the labels) and said that it requires at least 6 bottles of the same vintage in order to accomplish and that it requires sacrificing one bottle to replenish the other bottles with the same wine. He said that DRC had stopped reconditioning bottles at the domaine for its customers about 15 to 20 years ago because “it was only being done for the purpose of selling bottles or speculation.”
Aubert was then shown a series of stacks of labels of 1899, 1900, 1906, 1911, 1915 and 1933 Romanée Conti that were seized from Rudy’s house in March of 2012. Aubert testified that these were “totally extraordinary.” He explained that these are all great vintages and that “we don’t have bottles of any of these at the domaine.” Some of the labels were self-adhesive labels. Aubert stated that DRC has never used self-adhesive (stick on) labels. On cross-examination he said that DRC does have a label library but that there are several older vintages, where there are no longer any remaining bottles at the domaine, for which the domaine has no label exemplars.
Aubert was then handed 25 to 30 labels for 1945 Romanée Conti that were seized from Rudy’s home. He said that these labels “look like the correct label.” He was then shown a series of DRC Le Gaudichots labels seized from Rudy’s home from the 1899, 1900, 1906 and 1911 vintages. Aubert said that he has never seen an 1899 Gaudichots label in his life and that “if they existed it would be extraordinary.”
Aubert was next shown a label of 1945 DRC Richebourg Vieux Cepages. He explained that only 200 to 300 bottles of this wine had been produced. Mr. Hernandez then pointed out that printed on the reverse side of the 1945 label was a 1942 label for the same wine. Aubert and rest of the jury laughed. Aubert said that he was confident that DRC never produced such labels and that DRC had never printed labels on two sides.
Aubert was then asked for his opinion about the labels from Mr. Kurniawan’s home that he had been shown. He stated that “these were probably printed by a printer, but they are not our labels.” He also confirmed that DRC has never used any type of laser printer to produce its labels. (NB- I anticipate the jury will hear more about this from the government’s expert Michael Egan on Monday.)
On cross-examination Aubert was asked about Nicolas, who Aubert said was a very old French firm which had once been in the wholesale business as a negociant but had made the decision some years ago to become only a retailer. He said that for many years Nicolas had bought wines in barrel from DRC and many of the other burgundy domaines and bottled the wines themselves. He said DRC stopped selling wine to Nicolas at the end of the 1930’s.
Aubert was shown a series of photos of a bottle of 1945 Romanée Conti (Def. Exhibits B-22, B-31, B-32, B-1 and B-23) which bore his signature. Aubert admitted that it was his signature and that it was a bottle which Rudy brought to a vertical tasting of Romanée Conti held in New York. He was also shown a photo of a bottle of 1990 La Tâche which bore his signature. Aubert admitted that it was his signature but said he had no recollection of signing the bottle. Mr. Mooney suggested that Aubert had signed it at a vertical tasting of La Tâche held in New York in 2005 (NB I believe this tasting was held in California). Aubert could not recall the event but after being asked about other people attending the same tasting, including Wilf Jaeger, said that yes he recalled the La Tâche vertical. He was asked whether there were any counterfeit or suspect wines served at that dinner. He said he had no memory of any such wines but that he would have to go back to his files and check his notes to be certain. He explained that he has many times been served DRC wines which are not authentic.
On redirect examination, Aubert was asked if he would be surprised if someone told him that they had six bottles of 1945 Romanée Conti. He responded that “I would be very, very surprised. There were only 600 bottles produced and to have six bottles in one person’s hand – this would be very, very difficult to explain.”
Aubert de Villaine
I loved the beginning of this testimony. Aubert was asked “what do you do for a living?” He responded simply “I make wine.” Aubert explained the history of the Romanée Conti vineyard, explaining that the borders of the vineyard had been recognized since at least the 13th century.
Aubert was born in 1939 and was living away from the vineyard until he turned 25, when he began working there and taking a series of courses on winemaking in Dijon. He was named co-manager of the domaine in 1973.
Aubert emphasized the extreme rarity of some of the wines of DRC. The oldest bottle that DRC has is from 1911. A single bottle of Richebourg. He explained to due to phylloxera, all of the vineyards in burgundy had been ripped out and replanted with American rootstock and grafted burgundian pinot noir except for two vineyards – Romanée Conti and a tiny portion of Richebourg owned by DRC. Due to the inability to inject carbon sulfide into the root area during WWII, these vineyards were finally overcome by the phylloxera and were pulled out after 1945. Romanée Conti produced only two barrels (600 bottles) of 1945 Romanée Conti and only 200 to 300 bottles of 1945 Richebourg Vieux Cepages. The Domaine has no bottles of either 1945 remaining in their library.
Aubert emphasized that “nothing is more rare than 1945 Romanée Conti.” He said he would be genuinely surprised if there are ANY real bottles of 1945 Romanée Conti remaining in the world.
With respect to the practice of reconditioning, Aubert explained how it works (including topping up the wines and replacing the corks and capsules and potentially the labels) and said that it requires at least 6 bottles of the same vintage in order to accomplish and that it requires sacrificing one bottle to replenish the other bottles with the same wine. He said that DRC had stopped reconditioning bottles at the domaine for its customers about 15 to 20 years ago because “it was only being done for the purpose of selling bottles or speculation.”
Aubert was then shown a series of stacks of labels of 1899, 1900, 1906, 1911, 1915 and 1933 Romanée Conti that were seized from Rudy’s house in March of 2012. Aubert testified that these were “totally extraordinary.” He explained that these are all great vintages and that “we don’t have bottles of any of these at the domaine.” Some of the labels were self-adhesive labels. Aubert stated that DRC has never used self-adhesive (stick on) labels. On cross-examination he said that DRC does have a label library but that there are several older vintages, where there are no longer any remaining bottles at the domaine, for which the domaine has no label exemplars.
Aubert was then handed 25 to 30 labels for 1945 Romanée Conti that were seized from Rudy’s home. He said that these labels “look like the correct label.” He was then shown a series of DRC Le Gaudichots labels seized from Rudy’s home from the 1899, 1900, 1906 and 1911 vintages. Aubert said that he has never seen an 1899 Gaudichots label in his life and that “if they existed it would be extraordinary.”
Aubert was next shown a label of 1945 DRC Richebourg Vieux Cepages. He explained that only 200 to 300 bottles of this wine had been produced. Mr. Hernandez then pointed out that printed on the reverse side of the 1945 label was a 1942 label for the same wine. Aubert and rest of the jury laughed. Aubert said that he was confident that DRC never produced such labels and that DRC had never printed labels on two sides.
Aubert was then asked for his opinion about the labels from Mr. Kurniawan’s home that he had been shown. He stated that “these were probably printed by a printer, but they are not our labels.” He also confirmed that DRC has never used any type of laser printer to produce its labels. (NB- I anticipate the jury will hear more about this from the government’s expert Michael Egan on Monday.)
On cross-examination Aubert was asked about Nicolas, who Aubert said was a very old French firm which had once been in the wholesale business as a negociant but had made the decision some years ago to become only a retailer. He said that for many years Nicolas had bought wines in barrel from DRC and many of the other burgundy domaines and bottled the wines themselves. He said DRC stopped selling wine to Nicolas at the end of the 1930’s.
Aubert was shown a series of photos of a bottle of 1945 Romanée Conti (Def. Exhibits B-22, B-31, B-32, B-1 and B-23) which bore his signature. Aubert admitted that it was his signature and that it was a bottle which Rudy brought to a vertical tasting of Romanée Conti held in New York. He was also shown a photo of a bottle of 1990 La Tâche which bore his signature. Aubert admitted that it was his signature but said he had no recollection of signing the bottle. Mr. Mooney suggested that Aubert had signed it at a vertical tasting of La Tâche held in New York in 2005 (NB I believe this tasting was held in California). Aubert could not recall the event but after being asked about other people attending the same tasting, including Wilf Jaeger, said that yes he recalled the La Tâche vertical. He was asked whether there were any counterfeit or suspect wines served at that dinner. He said he had no memory of any such wines but that he would have to go back to his files and check his notes to be certain. He explained that he has many times been served DRC wines which are not authentic.
On redirect examination, Aubert was asked if he would be surprised if someone told him that they had six bottles of 1945 Romanée Conti. He responded that “I would be very, very surprised. There were only 600 bottles produced and to have six bottles in one person’s hand – this would be very, very difficult to explain.”
"Le vin, lors de la victoire je le mérite. Mais dans l'adversité, j'en ai besoin..." Napoléon Bonaparte
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maxima
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
On pensait que cette histoire de faux dans des encans était de l'histoire ancienne ou que le phénomène était un cas isolé, mais ça semble plus répandue que bien des gens le pense...et pas juste sur des millésime anciens...il y aurait des Roumier 2009 qui étaient suspects, entre autres...ce ne serait que la pointe du iceberg selon des experts.
On a qu'à penser que même des petits vins "main stream" style les rosés du Château Miraval du défunt couple Jolie-Pitt, seraient les vins les plus contrefaits en ce moment…imaginer les DRC, super-Toscans, Bordeaux etc qu'on voit dans les encans...nul n’est à l’abri!
Le lien en anglais qui en traite en surface.
https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2017/ ... -drc-lots/
PS: Sur le site Wine Berserkers, il y a beaucoup de détails, une très bonne lecture en passant...d'ailleurs, ça ne renforci que ma pensée sur les achats dans des encans, malheureusement pour ma part, je ne touche pas avec une pôle de 10 pieds!
On a qu'à penser que même des petits vins "main stream" style les rosés du Château Miraval du défunt couple Jolie-Pitt, seraient les vins les plus contrefaits en ce moment…imaginer les DRC, super-Toscans, Bordeaux etc qu'on voit dans les encans...nul n’est à l’abri!
Le lien en anglais qui en traite en surface.
https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2017/ ... -drc-lots/
PS: Sur le site Wine Berserkers, il y a beaucoup de détails, une très bonne lecture en passant...d'ailleurs, ça ne renforci que ma pensée sur les achats dans des encans, malheureusement pour ma part, je ne touche pas avec une pôle de 10 pieds!
The 10 most important two-letter words of the English language:"IF IT IS TO BE, IT IS UP TO ME!"
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louich
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
Les fils de discussion de Wine berserker sont a lire avec un verre par contre.... ils sont looooong ! Mais Don est un véritable animal de la bourgogne par contre...
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maxima
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
louich a écrit :Les fils de discussion de Wine berserker sont a lire avec un verre par contre.... ils sont looooong ! Mais Don est un véritable animal de la bourgogne par contre...
M. Cornwell qui est avocat de formation, a une façon de faire et le temps pour flairer les cas de fraude ou du moins questionner, c'est bien connu dans le millieu. Ce qui me fascine en lisant le long fil sur Wine Berserkers est que malgré les cas nombreux cas de fraude répertoriés depuis des années dans les grandes maisons d'encan comme Acker Merrall, malgré toutes les surveillances depuis le cas Kurniawan...et bien il y a encore des cas de fraudes qui se multiplient...et ça c'est dans les maisons qui sont surveillés dans les grands centres (N-Y, LA...etc)...je serais assez incomfortable de miser sur des lots dans les marchés moins achalandés et les maisons d'encan qui sont surement "moins surveillées"!
The 10 most important two-letter words of the English language:"IF IT IS TO BE, IT IS UP TO ME!"
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martcouz
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
jee27 a écrit :RUDY'S RECIPES
How to make fake….
1945 Ch Mouton-Rothschild
50% 1988 Ch Cos d'Estournel
25% 1990 Ch Palmer
25% 2000 California Cabernet
Domaine de la Romanée-Conti burgundy from the 1940s
2006 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge California Pinot Noir
Pomerol of the 1940s to 1960s
Duckhorn California Merlot 2007
Ça prend quand même un palais d'enfer pour pouvoir faire ça !! .. Mais un Duckhorn 2007 qui ressemble à un Pomerol de 75 ans? Sérieux ??? Wow ... Je suis sceptique, mais ça me donne quand même le goût d'acheter quelques bouteilles (du millésime courant) et de l'attendre quelques années.
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louich
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
maxima a écrit :louich a écrit :Les fils de discussion de Wine berserker sont a lire avec un verre par contre.... ils sont looooong ! Mais Don est un véritable animal de la bourgogne par contre...
M. Cornwell qui est avocat de formation, a une façon de faire et le temps pour flairer les cas de fraude ou du moins questionner, c'est bien connu dans le millieu. Ce qui me fascine en lisant le long fil sur Wine Berserkers est que malgré les cas nombreux cas de fraude répertoriés depuis des années dans les grandes maisons d'encan comme Acker Merrall, malgré toutes les surveillances depuis le cas Kurniawan...et bien il y a encore des cas de fraudes qui se multiplient...et ça c'est dans les maisons qui sont surveillés dans les grands centres (N-Y, LA...etc)...je serais assez incomfortable de miser sur des lots dans les marchés moins achalandés et les maisons d'encan qui sont surement "moins surveillées"!
Well, c'est la raison pour laquelle des maisons ont ouverte à HK comme Drangon 8 (qui ont les même individus louches que celle qui permettais de facilement vendre les faux aux USA)...
Acker Merral est une autra game AMHA par contre car le gars a clairement profiter de la situation pour s'en mettre les poche et le conflit d'intérêt était palpable. D'Ailleur je me demande pourquoi ils n'ont pas inclupé le gars 'd'accessoire' aux fraudes
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path133
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
martcouz a écrit :jee27 a écrit :RUDY'S RECIPES
How to make fake….
1945 Ch Mouton-Rothschild
50% 1988 Ch Cos d'Estournel
25% 1990 Ch Palmer
25% 2000 California Cabernet
Domaine de la Romanée-Conti burgundy from the 1940s
2006 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge California Pinot Noir
Pomerol of the 1940s to 1960s
Duckhorn California Merlot 2007
Ça prend quand même un palais d'enfer pour pouvoir faire ça !! .. Mais un Duckhorn 2007 qui ressemble à un Pomerol de 75 ans? Sérieux ??? Wow ... Je suis sceptique, mais ça me donne quand même le goût d'acheter quelques bouteilles (du millésime courant) et de l'attendre quelques années.
Les cuvées parcellaires de merlot de Duckhorn sont vraiment quelque chose et j'avoue que ça me surprend un peu moins que de voir un pinot californien 2006 passer pour un produit de la Romanée-Conti des années 1940...
path133
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maxima
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Re: Raisins amers - Les faux vins de Rudy Kurniawan
Un autre bouquin sur cette histoire...In Vino Duplicitas: The Rise and Fall of a Wine Forger Extraordinaire de Peter Hellman...Bonne lecture!
http://nypost.com/2017/10/07/how-an-ill ... s-history/
http://nypost.com/2017/10/07/how-an-ill ... s-history/
The 10 most important two-letter words of the English language:"IF IT IS TO BE, IT IS UP TO ME!"